Comments on: Ghamidi’s interpretation post – some afterthoughts about hermeneutics http://hangingodes.wordpress.com/2007/09/02/ghamidis-interpretation-post-some-afterthoughts-about-hermeneutics-quran-islahi-farahi/ Unless you believe, you will not understand Mon, 02 Nov 2009 09:15:20 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: K. Alniamy http://hangingodes.wordpress.com/2007/09/02/ghamidis-interpretation-post-some-afterthoughts-about-hermeneutics-quran-islahi-farahi/#comment-7888 K. Alniamy Sat, 03 Jan 2009 04:46:45 +0000 http://hangingodes.wordpress.com/2007/09/02/ghamidis-interpretation-post-some-afterthoughts-about-hermeneutics/#comment-7888 happy new year 2009 : please : open and hear http://saaid.net/flash/last-breath.htm with my best regards happy new year 2009 : please : open and hear http://saaid.net/flash/last-breath.htm with my best regards

]]> By: levitate http://hangingodes.wordpress.com/2007/09/02/ghamidis-interpretation-post-some-afterthoughts-about-hermeneutics-quran-islahi-farahi/#comment-7796 levitate Thu, 29 May 2008 11:34:01 +0000 http://hangingodes.wordpress.com/2007/09/02/ghamidis-interpretation-post-some-afterthoughts-about-hermeneutics/#comment-7796 The second hadith is from bukhari The second hadith is from bukhari

]]> By: levitate http://hangingodes.wordpress.com/2007/09/02/ghamidis-interpretation-post-some-afterthoughts-about-hermeneutics-quran-islahi-farahi/#comment-7795 levitate Thu, 29 May 2008 11:30:27 +0000 http://hangingodes.wordpress.com/2007/09/02/ghamidis-interpretation-post-some-afterthoughts-about-hermeneutics/#comment-7795 my above statment is not clear i mean to say.;.. order in quran is for fornication and order in hadith and taurat is for adultery :) my above statment is not clear i mean to say.;.. order in quran is for fornication and order in hadith and taurat is for adultery
:)

]]> By: levitate http://hangingodes.wordpress.com/2007/09/02/ghamidis-interpretation-post-some-afterthoughts-about-hermeneutics-quran-islahi-farahi/#comment-7794 levitate Thu, 29 May 2008 11:28:32 +0000 http://hangingodes.wordpress.com/2007/09/02/ghamidis-interpretation-post-some-afterthoughts-about-hermeneutics/#comment-7794 I do not understand how come you discuss it? Only a munkir e hadith would reject "stoning" for adultry, order in quran is for zina ... clear and authentic ahadith state what prophet did with adultry ... Two laws are kept in Islam from another book of Allah called taurat. One is punishment for apostisy and other is punishment for adultry ... And verse of taurat for stoning was given to rasool Allah saw by Allah... and sahabah memorized it. Abdullah b. 'Abbas reported that 'Umar b. Khattab sat on the pulpit of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Verily Allah sent Muhammad (may peace be upon him) with truth and He sent down the Book upon him, and the verse of stoning was included in what was sent down to him. We recited it, retained it in our memory and understood it. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) awarded the punishment of stoning to death (to the married adulterer and adulteress) and, after him, we also awarded the punishment of stoning, I am afraid that with the lapse of time, the people (may forget it) and may say: We do not find the punishment of stoning in the Book of Allah, and thus go astray by abandoning this duty prescribed by Allah. Stoning is a duty laid down in Allah's Book for married men and women who commit adultery when proof is established, or it there is pregnancy, or a confession. (Muslim 4194) Now where is that verse Narrated Ibn 'Umar: A Jew and a Jewess were brought to Allah's Apostle on a charge of committing an illegal sexual intercourse. The Prophet asked them. "What is the legal punishment (for this sin) in your Book (Torah)?" They replied, "Our priests have innovated the punishment of blackening the faces with charcoal and Tajbiya." 'Abdullah bin Salam said, "O Allah's Apostle, tell them to bring the Torah." The Torah was brought, and then one of the Jews put his hand over the Divine Verse of the Rajam (stoning to death) and started reading what preceded and what followed it. On that, Ibn Salam said to the Jew, "Lift up your hand." Behold! The Divine Verse of the Rajam was under his hand. So Allah's Apostle ordered that the two (sinners) be stoned to death, and so they werestoned. Ibn 'Umar added: So both of them were stoned at the Balat and I saw the Jew sheltering the Jewess. i dont have references of taurat but i beleive its some where in laviticus I do not understand how come you discuss it? Only a munkir e hadith would reject “stoning” for adultry, order in quran is for zina … clear and authentic ahadith state what prophet did with adultry …

Two laws are kept in Islam from another book of Allah called taurat. One is punishment for apostisy and other is punishment for adultry … And verse of taurat for stoning was given to rasool Allah saw by Allah… and sahabah memorized it.

Abdullah b. ‘Abbas reported that ‘Umar b. Khattab sat on the pulpit of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Verily Allah sent Muhammad (may peace be upon him) with truth and He sent down the Book upon him, and the verse of stoning was included in what was sent down to him.

We recited it, retained it in our memory and understood it. Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) awarded the punishment of stoning to death (to the married adulterer and adulteress) and, after him, we also awarded the punishment of stoning, I am afraid that with the lapse of time, the people (may forget it) and may say: We do not find the punishment of stoning in the Book of Allah, and thus go astray by abandoning this duty prescribed by Allah. Stoning is a duty laid down in Allah’s Book for married men and women who commit adultery when proof is established, or it there is pregnancy, or a confession. (Muslim 4194)

Now where is that verse

Narrated Ibn ‘Umar:
A Jew and a Jewess were brought to Allah’s Apostle on a charge of committing an illegal sexual intercourse. The Prophet asked them. “What is the legal punishment (for this sin) in your Book (Torah)?” They replied, “Our priests have innovated the punishment of blackening the faces with charcoal and Tajbiya.” ‘Abdullah bin Salam said, “O Allah’s Apostle, tell them to bring the Torah.” The Torah was brought, and then one of the Jews put his hand over the Divine Verse of the Rajam (stoning to death) and started reading what preceded and what followed it. On that, Ibn Salam said to the Jew, “Lift up your hand.” Behold! The Divine Verse of the Rajam was under his hand. So Allah’s Apostle ordered that the two (sinners) be stoned to death, and so they werestoned. Ibn ‘Umar added: So both of them were stoned at the Balat and I saw the Jew sheltering the Jewess.

i dont have references of taurat but i beleive its some where in laviticus

]]> By: dawood http://hangingodes.wordpress.com/2007/09/02/ghamidis-interpretation-post-some-afterthoughts-about-hermeneutics-quran-islahi-farahi/#comment-5302 dawood Sat, 27 Oct 2007 22:38:31 +0000 http://hangingodes.wordpress.com/2007/09/02/ghamidis-interpretation-post-some-afterthoughts-about-hermeneutics/#comment-5302 Oops... pressed submit too early. The traditional punishments for fasad include exile - how can you say stoning is more 'appealing' than exile/imprisonment? Oops… pressed submit too early.

The traditional punishments for fasad include exile – how can you say stoning is more ‘appealing’ than exile/imprisonment?

]]> By: dawood http://hangingodes.wordpress.com/2007/09/02/ghamidis-interpretation-post-some-afterthoughts-about-hermeneutics-quran-islahi-farahi/#comment-5301 dawood Sat, 27 Oct 2007 22:37:47 +0000 http://hangingodes.wordpress.com/2007/09/02/ghamidis-interpretation-post-some-afterthoughts-about-hermeneutics/#comment-5301 So again with my question - he equates fasad with everything from people having outside-of-marriage relationships/contact, to prostitution, to terrorism/rebellion. How will the punishment of stoning be controlled between all of these situations and contexts? How can you say stoning is more 'appealing'? So again with my question – he equates fasad with everything from people having outside-of-marriage relationships/contact, to prostitution, to terrorism/rebellion. How will the punishment of stoning be controlled between all of these situations and contexts?

How can you say stoning is more ‘appealing’?

]]> By: Zubair http://hangingodes.wordpress.com/2007/09/02/ghamidis-interpretation-post-some-afterthoughts-about-hermeneutics-quran-islahi-farahi/#comment-5293 Zubair Sat, 27 Oct 2007 14:51:55 +0000 http://hangingodes.wordpress.com/2007/09/02/ghamidis-interpretation-post-some-afterthoughts-about-hermeneutics/#comment-5293 As far as I understand the point of view of Mr. Ghamidi, punishment of fornication (Zina) is 100 slashes. Stoning is punishment for criminals (in this context) like Gang rapists etc. These criminals are a menace for society and fall within the Category of FASADI etc. Above despite being different from the Classical School of Thought is more appealing. Regards As far as I understand the point of view of Mr. Ghamidi, punishment of fornication (Zina) is 100 slashes.

Stoning is punishment for criminals (in this context) like Gang rapists etc. These criminals are a menace for society and fall within the Category of FASADI etc.

Above despite being different from the Classical School of Thought is more appealing.

Regards

]]> By: dawood http://hangingodes.wordpress.com/2007/09/02/ghamidis-interpretation-post-some-afterthoughts-about-hermeneutics-quran-islahi-farahi/#comment-5192 dawood Tue, 23 Oct 2007 20:01:55 +0000 http://hangingodes.wordpress.com/2007/09/02/ghamidis-interpretation-post-some-afterthoughts-about-hermeneutics/#comment-5192 I understand that from the article, but what I don't understand is why he equates stoning with "fasad fi al-ard", then proceeds to explain that "fasad" includes prostitution and other issues going all the way up to rebellion. My point relates to how he would regulate the application of stoning for "fasad" so that random people (i.e. women) being accused of prostitution would not be stoned to death etc. Looking at the current discussion regarding the "Hudood Laws" of Pakistan and elsewhere, there is already a travesty of justice being committed in regards to many women, so this is a key issue in understanding his thought. I understand that from the article, but what I don’t understand is why he equates stoning with “fasad fi al-ard”, then proceeds to explain that “fasad” includes prostitution and other issues going all the way up to rebellion. My point relates to how he would regulate the application of stoning for “fasad” so that random people (i.e. women) being accused of prostitution would not be stoned to death etc. Looking at the current discussion regarding the “Hudood Laws” of Pakistan and elsewhere, there is already a travesty of justice being committed in regards to many women, so this is a key issue in understanding his thought.

]]> By: justanotherperson http://hangingodes.wordpress.com/2007/09/02/ghamidis-interpretation-post-some-afterthoughts-about-hermeneutics-quran-islahi-farahi/#comment-5177 justanotherperson Tue, 23 Oct 2007 01:28:50 +0000 http://hangingodes.wordpress.com/2007/09/02/ghamidis-interpretation-post-some-afterthoughts-about-hermeneutics/#comment-5177 @dawood Why Ghamidi puts stoning in Hadud? Because, according to the Qur'an: "whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men". From this, Prophet (sws) could only give death punishment for above prescribed crimes and couldn't give death punishment under anyother tazir or had. I hope it will clear the discrepancy. IMHO! @dawood

Why Ghamidi puts stoning in Hadud? Because, according to the Qur’an: “whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men”. From this, Prophet (sws) could only give death punishment for above prescribed crimes and couldn’t give death punishment under anyother tazir or had. I hope it will clear the discrepancy. IMHO!

]]> By: dawood http://hangingodes.wordpress.com/2007/09/02/ghamidis-interpretation-post-some-afterthoughts-about-hermeneutics-quran-islahi-farahi/#comment-5017 dawood Wed, 17 Oct 2007 21:52:36 +0000 http://hangingodes.wordpress.com/2007/09/02/ghamidis-interpretation-post-some-afterthoughts-about-hermeneutics/#comment-5017 That sounds great - I don't have much time to post on my now defunct blog anymore (dezhen) due to study commitments, but am still interested in carrying on discussions regarding the Islamic tradition when I can! That sounds great – I don’t have much time to post on my now defunct blog anymore (dezhen) due to study commitments, but am still interested in carrying on discussions regarding the Islamic tradition when I can!

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